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Blokart rules: Port/Starboard vs. "Right Hand rule"

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  • #16
    What he said!


    • #17
      LOL!!! I love a good debate! ;-)

      Originally posted by blokart in NZ View Post
      I think it was Greg Elliott (yacht designer) who once told me. " Sailing model yachts is a bit like having a wank.... sure it feels good, but after a couple of minutes you realize it ain't the real thing"


      • #18
        Geeze. I need a parapsychologist to help me translate the many meanings to this puzzle of a response. You have to wait a few days for my reply. I cant understand much of this!

        Originally posted by ouryard21st View Post
        The ice boat rules work great for blokarting in the U.S. However I would take issue with saying that keeping Blokart related to sailing is key. I sailed and raced all different types of water boats. Yes, I did well and I still left the sport. I just can't stand the crappy attitude of the people in the sport of sailing. Yes, there where some great people , but 70 to 80% were just uptight spoiled brats. I love the people in Blokart on the whole, people are friendlier, and a lot more fun to hang out with.

        The assumption here in the US seems to be that Blokart can only have one format, which must as close to a sailboat race as possible each and every time. This is a losing approach, look how well it worked for beach catamarans.

        Why do the "sailing" guys seem to want to ruin everything new that comes out?

        I would love to try track racing, but unless I go to New Zealand.

        Why does port starboard have to apply on a track?

        Do track rules have to apply when sailing in a big area when you want to have a sailboat type race?

        Rules what ever they are need to be based on safety and creating an event that can produce an eye ball to eye ball contest.

        Sailing at Ivannpah yes things happen fast and it is easier for me (granted I grew up sailing) to work out which side of the Kart the wind is hitting, than work out who is to the left or right of who. Yet I can see where port starboard rule would create problems in a small track setting. I didn't like the dust, the dry sun that pulls the water out of you and the coughing from god only knows what we breath in out there.

        I would love to hear more about how do you run races safely on a small track like BloKart Heaven.

        About BloKart becoming a subset of sailing, I see this as bad news. The facts are the sailing community in the US is not lining up to buy a Blokart, we have to try something different.

        People might not want to read this, but Blokarting has to something different from what people can find in other classes of sailing. If major races will only be at Ivannpah (which is dirty, and with wind speeds all over the place) is not a great place to hold world class racing. Ok, they have a pimping hotel and a crappy mall.

        Why can't BloKart events in the US rotate around as new venues are found. Keeping races in only one place doesn't help develop new venues and reach new pilots.

        There is a great site near San Francisco, yet if we get blokart pilots out there, they will be railroaded into going to the "dust bowl" Ivannpah every time they wanted to do a major race.

        I am not saying we shouldn't race or sail Ivannpah, just that it isn't the be all end all, just as the sailing rules are not the be all to end all for all Blokart venues.

        What can BloKart offer that an iceboat class can't, flexibility, compact racing or sailing and able to get into smaller areas and could someday become more main stream than sailing.

        We also need to think about how to make watching a Blokart race more exciting for the people not sailing the Blokart. I love sailing the Blokart, but watching a blokart race or a sailing race for that matter is boring.


        • #19
          Hi. I live on the Isle of Wight in the UK. I have sailed extensively (still do) and have also done several Blokart events in Europe and the UK, including the 2010 Nationals and Worlds. Great fun. Personally I would prefer the normal port and starboard and mark rounding etc sailing rules applied to Blokart (with suitable modifications when approaching marks) racing rather than the right hand rule. The Europeans strongly prefer the right hand rule so thats what we run with - no problem.
          But the general level of racing rule compliance was low. Often it is accidental and competitors wave each other through and exchange courtesy's such as "no problem but you owe me one!" but there were one or two disappointingly persistent offenders. Everyone wants to stay out of trouble and keep moving at top speed as getting in a tangle lets the whole fleet whizz past. But time after time we saw the right hand blokarts getting shafted and nothing was being done about it. For future events I would wish to have a wide angle onboard camera facing forward and another facing aft to help 'clarify' the post race analysis (and for enjoyment of course). Do you think the GoPro HD cameras would survive the sand at Ivanpah? Or would onboard watercannon be more useful in the desert?


          • #20
            Why try to make the same rules for everybody without care about the specific needs of every diferent class.

            Not everybody involved in blokart, comes from the sailing world or will sail, on water, never.

            Not everybody can sail in huge areas as Ivanpah where you can have some seconds to think about upwind, downwind, port, starboard... as stupid guys as me need to do. We use to blokart in a very small areas (blo... karting) where the most safety thing is the right of hand rule because everybody can blokart in a few minutes ( and most of the people have driving experience where the right of hand is the basis on the road in most of the countries.

            We are so sorry but in spanish and french, "sailor" means "marinero" and "marin", only used in the sea. The other translation is "navegante" and "navigateur", this one is used also in aviation, but never on the land. The logical step, driving something on the land was "piloto" and "pilot".
            Defeat after defeat 'til the final victory


            • #21
              Originally posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
              I do agree aA, is learning basic sailing rules any more difficult? These Blokarts easily go 50 mph on dry lake beds in moderate wind. Closing speeds can be as high as 80mph!!! The consequence of unclear rules at those speeds are serious!!! Who believes that learning when the wind is on the right or starboard side of the craft that you have the right away vs. craft on the other "tack" is too difficult to learn? The benefits of the system allow for very close and safe racing. Why go in some radical new direction and alienate the sport of Blokarting from the world of sailing? In essence, this is what is happening in some regions.

              Blokarts needs an International Standard on the basic rules, consistent across all events.
              At lease we don't use Larboard anymore for Port.

              It's really easy Starboard has lots of letters just like Right. Left and Port both have 4 letters. That's how I learned it when I was 12 years old.

              It seems to me that the Whole World of Land/Ice Sailing needs a World Governing body. If you do not watch out ISAF will try to grab the whole world of Land and Ice Sailing and then we will really be Fucked.

              If new sailors cannot learn the difference between Port and Starboard, How can they learn Tack and Jibe??

              Do not make excuses to be lazy.


              • #22
                Originally posted by Zipped View Post
                I disagree, going downwind, the boat on your right can be covering your wind. The rules of sailing are set so that you don't further disadvantage a boat. It would suck to have someone who's stealing your wind converge on you with more speed than you and then give you a foul.
                An old post I know... but I see perhaps some misconceptions around current blokart rules???
                The windward sailor must still keep clear when sailing on the same tack. It is only on opposing tacks that the right-hand rule applies - therefore I don't see any big disadvantage for "give way to right" - it's just that it's different to current sailing rules.
                I actually agree with blokart rules being based on existing sailing rules (where possible) - but more important to me is getting all to agree on common rules across the sport. The sailing rules have evolved over many years - but that does not necessarily make them the best, easiest and fairest. I would imagine making any changes to international sailing rules would be nigh on impossible - therefore how much evolution and development has actually occured? With the new sport of Blokarting we have a chance to set rules that are the best easiest and fairest - not necessary locked into conventions set a long time ago for very different type of craft.

                The other specific blokart sailing rule being widely used is downwind gives way to upwind - that has come from experience with a lot of fast racing in very confined spaces to find what has worked best. Don't think this one is currently included in IBRA rules but one that I think is likely to be added in the future - particular for tight windward/leeward courses.