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  • LMPHRF and US Sailing

    I received my renewal for LMPHRF and there is now a requirement for having a US Sailing membership. WTF> how can we influence the US Sailing board if they don't start to see it where it hurts. In $$$$. It seems like it will be business as usual.

  • #2
    How else will you get "your passion, organized?" (Smiley thing)

    Do you get a big discount on the LMPHRF side?

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    • #3
      No discount, they will not offer a PHRF cert without a US Sailing membership.

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      • #4
        Encourage the clubs to accept 2010 certificates for this year. Your PHRF committee will get the message pretty quickly that this is not the time to force an extra $60 membership on people. Some of our races allow certificates from other regions - that would also work in the short run.

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        • #5
          This really shouldn't be a big deal for people...$105 for a new cert and US Sailing membership is not that much money in the grand scheme of things...take one night off from going out dining and boozing and after paying for a sitter, you have it covered

          IMHO

          Hroth

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          • #6
            It's not just the cost Hroth - I'm a member now.

            Membership needs to be a choice so US Sailing remains accountable, especially in light of its last attempt at forced membership.

            US Sailing has no business forcing itself on a local PHRF region. Are they trying to take control of PHRF ratings? Those are supposed to be based on observed performance among local boats in your local sailing conditions.

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            • #7
              @Dyslexic Dog: That's abject bullshit. I'd tell your local PHRF guys where to stick that crap... BobJ is right on.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Marie Laveau View Post
                @Dyslexic Dog: That's abject bullshit. I'd tell your local PHRF guys where to stick that crap... BobJ is right on.
                While I tend to agree with the sentiment, what'll wind up the result? ... DD won't be able to sail in the races he enjoys.

                Most of the local PHRF offices are directly involved in US Sailing. They tend to want you to support their 'parent' organization!

                I think it would be smarter on US Sailing's part to drop their membership price back to $20 and encourage offshoots like LMPHRF to put out a (bit) lower cost certification for US Sailing members ... maybe the current $45 for members and $55 for non members?

                LMPHRF does a decent job (don't hear that often!), with very few legitimate complaints about politics and favoritism and pretty stable ratings.

                Haz

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Haz View Post
                  While I tend to agree with the sentiment, what'll wind up the result? ... DD won't be able to sail in the races he enjoys.

                  Most of the local PHRF offices are directly involved in US Sailing. They tend to want you to support their 'parent' organization!

                  I think it would be smarter on US Sailing's part to drop their membership price back to $20 and encourage offshoots like LMPHRF to put out a (bit) lower cost certification for US Sailing members ... maybe the current $45 for members and $55 for non members?

                  LMPHRF does a decent job (don't hear that often!), with very few legitimate complaints about politics and favoritism and pretty stable ratings.

                  Haz
                  Wanting you to support their parent organization and forcing you to do so are two vastly different things. If USS added perceived value, sailors would support it. IMHO, USS is way out of touch with the group they supposedly represent. Instead of forcing people to support USS, why not try asking people what they want USS to do for them, instead of the other way around?. $50 is meaningless compared to what most of us spend on sailing in a year.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Haz View Post
                    While I tend to agree with the sentiment, what'll wind up the result? ... DD won't be able to sail in the races he enjoys.
                    I'm not ok at all with someone holding a proverbial gun to my head which is exactly what you're describing. Acts like the aforementioned tell me that USSailing is damn well aware that they're not doing what the sailors want but they don't give a flying shit because they can coerce sailors into joining anyway.

                    It's not about the money... there are entry fee discounts for USSailing members and I'm fine with paying more to race, but I'm damned if I'll directly support an organization with whom I am not in agreement.

                    USSailing needs to think real hard about these sort of acts - they're only serving to alienate more people, and if enough people are alienated, we'll be enough to organise our own sandbox to play in...

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Haz View Post

                      LMPHRF does a decent job (don't hear that often!), with very few legitimate complaints about politics and favoritism and pretty stable ratings.

                      Haz
                      Unfortunately, this isn't entirely true. I inquired as to why the Mt Gay 30 in Milwaukee had a rating adjustment from 69 to 75 last year....and why they didn't have a 3 second penalty for distance racing like we, as well as many others, do. All I got was, "the board voted on it". I continued to press it as all I was looking for was the reason for the change and I got BS answer after BS answer....including this was a typical case of boat owners thinking they understand rating rules when they really don't. I then requested the meeting minutes from the previous two years (since they don't post them as they should) and I was told it would be very difficult and costly to provide them as the server had crashed recently and they were lost. Now something really smells bad with that reply.

                      I understand that I have options, including protesting the boat's rating, but that would come at my expense and I race against this boat once a year, so it's not worth it to me. All I was looking for was an explanation and I didn't come close to getting one that was reasonable.
                      Shorthanded Racing

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                      • #12
                        Please note, while not backing away from what I said, that I DID say I agreed that the 'forcing' part sucked. The fact that I refuse to get all wound up about it shouldn't obscure my feelings.

                        There's far too much angst and wasted emotion on these boards.

                        Bob ... I did say 'very few', not none. There's no organization that's without problems, and LMPHRF has always been a bit opaque. While I'm not sure what to try to do about it, I'm pretty sure tossing out the current organizations and replacing them won't make for fewer problems!

                        Haz

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                        • #13
                          No angst here, frankly LMPHRF and USS are irrelevant to me. Just expressing an opinion, and admittedly some frustration. Think about why these topics come up so frequently on forums...I suspect because people have no other way to make their voices heard. I have never had any type of communication from USS that wasn't asking for money, and nothing else. Successful organizations are attuned and responsive to their customers, above board and open. Until USS loses the ivory tower mentality, they serve only themselves. Reminds me of politicians talking about their "public service".

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Haz View Post
                            Please note, while not backing away from what I said, that I DID say I agreed that the 'forcing' part sucked. The fact that I refuse to get all wound up about it shouldn't obscure my feelings.

                            There's far too much angst and wasted emotion on these boards.

                            Bob ... I did say 'very few', not none. There's no organization that's without problems, and LMPHRF has always been a bit opaque. While I'm not sure what to try to do about it, I'm pretty sure tossing out the current organizations and replacing them won't make for fewer problems!

                            Haz
                            True, LMPHRF doesn't have as many issues as other regions, but the lack of transparency is unacceptable. But, like Barley mentions, how does one address it? Complaints to the organization fall on deaf ears. This has been going on for years. This is the first time I shared this publicly because it would have been a mistake on that other site. Perhaps we can have some brainstorming here to generate ideas to address our concerns with LMPHRF.

                            Regarding the requirement to be a US Sailing member? It doesn't impact me because I have to be a member in order to hold an ORR cert. But, I do have an issue with an organizing authority forcing people to spend more money to race....even at the club level as most clubs require up to date certificates.
                            Shorthanded Racing

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bob Hughes View Post
                              True, LMPHRF doesn't have as many issues as other regions, but the lack of transparency is unacceptable. But, like Barley mentions, how does one address it? Complaints to the organization fall on deaf ears. This has been going on for years. This is the first time I shared this publicly because it would have been a mistake on that other site. Perhaps we can have some brainstorming here to generate ideas to address our concerns with LMPHRF.
                              Now we're getting to the heart of everyones darkness ... how do you effectively change the organizations you love to hate?

                              You absolutely can NOT do it by bitching. There's enough like minded people within those bastions that they effectively support themselves.

                              A competing organization could be built, but few have the time to invest, and reinventing the wheel is inefficient.

                              So, how do you 'infiltrate' an existing organization, maintain your personal objectives, and rise to the point where you wield enough power to force change for the better? Most people burn out and quit, or are corrupted during the process enough, that, by the time they achieve the power, they are what they originally fought against.

                              I'd love to form an informal group that just tossed this shit around ... there would have to be beer involved!

                              Haz

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