Sportboats start in HDA races, where are thee???

[Hanno]

Dan, what formula is HDA using? Same as SSS? I looked on the YRA website and couldn't find it.

[DeathSpear]

Dan, what formula is HDA using? Same as SSS? I looked on the YRA website and couldn't find it.

I got this from Laura:
"We define a Sport Boat as a boat with a LWL of 32’ or less and a D/WL Ratio of 113 or less."

Note they use LWL, not overall length, so the 1D35 and FT10s meet the rule.

[bhyde]

I got this from Laura:
"We define a Sport Boat as a boat with a LWL of 32’ or less and a D/WL Ratio of 113 or less."

Note they use LWL, not overall length, so the 1D35 and FT10s meet the rule.

That's really surprising. Seems like any sportboat definition needs to include SA/D in the equation. In my limited thinking, a sportboat needs to have an SA/D greater than say 28-30. It also seems like the ballast to weight ratio needs to be considered. An Americas Cup boat (monohulls of yore, not the multis) is definitely not a sportboat.

The Deathspear is kind of an oddball. Having owned the other JS9000, I really couldn't say if it fit the definition of a sprotboat. It certainly had sportboat speed and the upwind/downwind angles, but always felt like a keelboat to me. Maybe the definition needs to also include torturous hiking for the crew and the ability to wipe out without warning The JS would not meet that requirement.

Maybe the true measure of any boat in the class is its ability to sail at similar speeds and angles to boats that we know are sportboats, say the M24 or U24, and not a hard formula. Come up with a good guess for a rating and adjust it based on observed performance. That's PHRF at its heart.

Now if anyone wants to take a crack at multis in HDA have I got a project for you...

[DeathSpear]

So there are 116 boats today with PHRF certs in our SF fleet that meet the YRA definition of Sportboats above. Of those these are the unique boat types included (a couple of gems in there, see if you can spot them). I don't have SA/D information on the spreadsheet I got, but I'm sure I can get it if I ask. That could be a further refinement. It does sound like there is some inclination to only have assymetric boats within the division.


Boat Type
11 Metre ODR
1D 35
1D 35 MOD
Antrim 27 CM ODR
Azzura 310
B 25 ODR
Capri 22
Cheetah 30
Custom Black Soo 30
Custom DP 26
Custom GP 26
Custom JS 9000
Custom Mancebo 31
Custom Ross 930
Custom Tripp 33
Custom Wilderness 30 SX
Elliott 6.5
Farr 30
Flying Tiger 10 Meter ODR
Flying Tiger 7.5 Meter ODR
Henderson 30
Hobie 33 MOD
Hobie 33 ODR
Holder 20
Hotfoot 20
Hunter 216
i550 MOD
International Tempest ODR
J 90 Mod
Laser SB3
MacGregor 26 WB
Melges 20
Melges 24
Melges 32 ODR
Mini Transat 6.5
Mini Transat 6.5 Type Zero
Mumm/Farr 30
Olson 29
Open 5.7 ODR
Pyramid 660 MOD
Santa Cruz 27
Santa Cruz 27 Mod
Soverel 33-2
Synergy 1000
Thompson 650
Ultimate 20
Ultimate 20 CM
Ultimate 24 ODR
Viper 640 ODR
Wilderness 30
Wilderness 30 SX FR IB
Wylie Wabbit ODR W/Trap

[Big Brass Balls]

[QUOTE=DeathSpear;16468]So there are 116 boats today with PHRF certs in our SF fleet that meet the YRA definition of Sportboats above. Of those these are the unique boat types included (a couple of gems in there, see if you can spot them). I don't have SA/D information on the spreadsheet I got, but I'm sure I can get it if I ask. That could be a further refinement. It does sound like there is some inclination to only have assymetric boats within the division.


Boat Type
11 Metre ODR
1D 35
1D 35 MODAntrim 27 CM ODR
Azzura 310
B 25 ODR
Capri 22Cheetah 30
Custom Black Soo 30Custom DP 26
Custom GP 26
Custom JS 9000
Custom Mancebo 31
Custom Ross 930
Custom Tripp 33
Custom Wilderness 30 SXElliott 6.5
Farr 30Flying Tiger 10 Meter ODR
Flying Tiger 7.5 Meter ODR
Henderson 30
Hobie 33 MOD
Hobie 33 ODR
Holder 20
Hotfoot 20
Hunter 216
i550 MOD
International Tempest ODR
J 90 Mod
Laser SB3
MacGregor 26 WBMelges 20
Melges 24
Melges 32 ODR
Mini Transat 6.5
Mini Transat 6.5 Type Zero
Mumm/Farr 30
Olson 29
Open 5.7 ODR
Pyramid 660 MOD
Santa Cruz 27
Santa Cruz 27 ModSoverel 33-2
Synergy 1000
Thompson 650
Ultimate 20
Ultimate 20 CM
Ultimate 24 ODR
Viper 640 ODR
Wilderness 30
Wilderness 30 SX FR IB
Wylie Wabbit ODR W/Trap[/QUOTE]

The ones in red don't really fit the profile of a sportboat, do they?

http://www.tboat.com/Editorials/Edit...port-what.html

[DeathSpear]

[QUOTE=Big Brass Balls;16469]

So there are 116 boats today with PHRF certs in our SF fleet that meet the YRA definition of Sportboats above. Of those these are the unique boat types included (a couple of gems in there, see if you can spot them). I don't have SA/D information on the spreadsheet I got, but I'm sure I can get it if I ask. That could be a further refinement. It does sound like there is some inclination to only have assymetric boats within the division.


Boat Type
11 Metre ODR
1D 35
1D 35 MODAntrim 27 CM ODR
Azzura 310
B 25 ODR
Capri 22Cheetah 30
Custom Black Soo 30Custom DP 26
Custom GP 26
Custom JS 9000
Custom Mancebo 31
Custom Ross 930
Custom Tripp 33
Custom Wilderness 30 SXElliott 6.5
Farr 30Flying Tiger 10 Meter ODR
Flying Tiger 7.5 Meter ODR
Henderson 30
Hobie 33 MOD
Hobie 33 ODR
Holder 20
Hotfoot 20
Hunter 216
i550 MOD
International Tempest ODR
J 90 Mod
Laser SB3
MacGregor 26 WBMelges 20
Melges 24
Melges 32 ODR
Mini Transat 6.5
Mini Transat 6.5 Type Zero
Mumm/Farr 30
Olson 29
Open 5.7 ODR
Pyramid 660 MOD
Santa Cruz 27
Santa Cruz 27 ModSoverel 33-2
Synergy 1000
Thompson 650
Ultimate 20
Ultimate 20 CM
Ultimate 24 ODR
Viper 640 ODR
Wilderness 30
Wilderness 30 SX FR IB
Wylie Wabbit ODR W/Trap[/QUOTE]

The ones in red don't really fit the profile of a sportboat, do they?

http://www.tboat.com/Editorials/Edit...port-what.html

There isn't much of 'real' definition on that site, other than:
'sporty looking', 'between 6 and 8 meters', 'tend to plane downwind', 'assymetric spinnakers'

Sporty looking is pretty subjective, but I guess we can use that definition to eliminate the Hunter, MacGregor and Capri (do note that surprisingly to me, both the Hunter and the Mac come with assymetric spinnakers with sprits... feck!)

I think we can also argue that you can go to around 10m and still be considered a sporty? But yes, taking symmetrical boats out yields a similar list (I'm taking out the MacGregor and Hunter from the list just to reduce the noise in the thread


Boat Type
1D 35 MOD
Antrim 27 CM ODR
Azzura 310
Cheetah 30
Custom Black Soo 30
Custom GP 26
Custom JS 9000
Elliott 6.5
Farr 30
Flying Tiger 10 Meter ODR
Flying Tiger 7.5 Meter ODR
Henderson 30
Hobie 33 MOD
Hotfoot 20
i550 MOD
J 90 Mod
Laser SB3
Melges 20
Melges 24
Melges 32 ODR
Mini Transat 6.5
Mini Transat 6.5 Type Zero
Mumm/Farr 30
Open 5.7 ODR
Pyramid 660 MOD
Synergy 1000
Thompson 650
Ultimate 20
Ultimate 20 CM
Ultimate 24 ODR
Viper 640 ODR

Any other discrimination factors?

[Big Brass Balls]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsboat

Kind of lends some additional definitions. You could add the Platu or Laser SB3 to list, not that there are many about currently.

[DeathSpear]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsboat

Kind of lends some additional definitions. You could add the Platu or Laser SB3 to list, not that there are many about currently.

The SB3 is listed. I thought the Platu had symmetric kite? I also kept the modified versions of the Hobbie, Blacksoo and 1d35 as they have all been 'turboed' with sprits and assys.

[Big Brass Balls]

I missed the SB3, and somehow visioned the platu with an ace. Not wonder they never sold well in the US.
It looks like a good list to build on. Good work taking on the initiative!

[#13]

@ #13, what boat do you own?

It will be impossible to meet everyone's calendars needs. You do Mercurys, I do SSS plus long distance Ocean, others will have other conflicts...

I find Vallejo and Jazz Cup to be great fun for the SBs, normally long downwind runs. I do like the mix of single longish p2p race days and multiple W/L race days..

I'm the original owner of "Cascade", an Antrim 27 based out of Encinal.

[DeathSpear]

Maybe time to regroup....

At todays HDA race, out of the 6 SBs entered only 4 showed up. And two of them, the Hendy and the Ultimate 24, raced in non-SB divisions???? Oh well, we enjoyed a match race with the 1D35.