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Sportboats start in HDA races, where are thee???

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  • #16
    Dan, what formula is HDA using? Same as SSS? I looked on the YRA website and couldn't find it.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Hanno View Post
      Dan, what formula is HDA using? Same as SSS? I looked on the YRA website and couldn't find it.
      I got this from Laura:
      "We define a Sport Boat as a boat with a LWL of 32’ or less and a D/WL Ratio of 113 or less."

      Note they use LWL, not overall length, so the 1D35 and FT10s meet the rule.
      http://jetstreamracing.blogspot.com/
      http://www.facebook.com/JS9045

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by DeathSpear View Post
        I got this from Laura:
        "We define a Sport Boat as a boat with a LWL of 32’ or less and a D/WL Ratio of 113 or less."

        Note they use LWL, not overall length, so the 1D35 and FT10s meet the rule.
        That's really surprising. Seems like any sportboat definition needs to include SA/D in the equation. In my limited thinking, a sportboat needs to have an SA/D greater than say 28-30. It also seems like the ballast to weight ratio needs to be considered. An Americas Cup boat (monohulls of yore, not the multis) is definitely not a sportboat.

        The Deathspear is kind of an oddball. Having owned the other JS9000, I really couldn't say if it fit the definition of a sprotboat. It certainly had sportboat speed and the upwind/downwind angles, but always felt like a keelboat to me. Maybe the definition needs to also include torturous hiking for the crew and the ability to wipe out without warning The JS would not meet that requirement.

        Maybe the true measure of any boat in the class is its ability to sail at similar speeds and angles to boats that we know are sportboats, say the M24 or U24, and not a hard formula. Come up with a good guess for a rating and adjust it based on observed performance. That's PHRF at its heart.

        Now if anyone wants to take a crack at multis in HDA have I got a project for you...

        Comment


        • #19
          So there are 116 boats today with PHRF certs in our SF fleet that meet the YRA definition of Sportboats above. Of those these are the unique boat types included (a couple of gems in there, see if you can spot them). I don't have SA/D information on the spreadsheet I got, but I'm sure I can get it if I ask. That could be a further refinement. It does sound like there is some inclination to only have assymetric boats within the division.


          Boat Type
          11 Metre ODR
          1D 35
          1D 35 MOD
          Antrim 27 CM ODR
          Azzura 310
          B 25 ODR
          Capri 22
          Cheetah 30
          Custom Black Soo 30
          Custom DP 26
          Custom GP 26
          Custom JS 9000
          Custom Mancebo 31
          Custom Ross 930
          Custom Tripp 33
          Custom Wilderness 30 SX
          Elliott 6.5
          Farr 30
          Flying Tiger 10 Meter ODR
          Flying Tiger 7.5 Meter ODR
          Henderson 30
          Hobie 33 MOD
          Hobie 33 ODR
          Holder 20
          Hotfoot 20
          Hunter 216
          i550 MOD
          International Tempest ODR
          J 90 Mod
          Laser SB3
          MacGregor 26 WB
          Melges 20
          Melges 24
          Melges 32 ODR
          Mini Transat 6.5
          Mini Transat 6.5 Type Zero
          Mumm/Farr 30
          Olson 29
          Open 5.7 ODR
          Pyramid 660 MOD
          Santa Cruz 27
          Santa Cruz 27 Mod
          Soverel 33-2
          Synergy 1000
          Thompson 650
          Ultimate 20
          Ultimate 20 CM
          Ultimate 24 ODR
          Viper 640 ODR
          Wilderness 30
          Wilderness 30 SX FR IB
          Wylie Wabbit ODR W/Trap
          http://jetstreamracing.blogspot.com/
          http://www.facebook.com/JS9045

          Comment


          • #20
            [QUOTE=DeathSpear;16468]So there are 116 boats today with PHRF certs in our SF fleet that meet the YRA definition of Sportboats above. Of those these are the unique boat types included (a couple of gems in there, see if you can spot them). I don't have SA/D information on the spreadsheet I got, but I'm sure I can get it if I ask. That could be a further refinement. It does sound like there is some inclination to only have assymetric boats within the division.


            Boat Type
            11 Metre ODR
            1D 35
            1D 35 MOD
            Antrim 27 CM ODR
            Azzura 310
            B 25 ODR
            Capri 22Cheetah 30
            Custom Black Soo 30Custom DP 26
            Custom GP 26
            Custom JS 9000
            Custom Mancebo 31
            Custom Ross 930
            Custom Tripp 33
            Custom Wilderness 30 SXElliott 6.5
            Farr 30Flying Tiger 10 Meter ODR
            Flying Tiger 7.5 Meter ODR
            Henderson 30
            Hobie 33 MOD
            Hobie 33 ODR
            Holder 20
            Hotfoot 20
            Hunter 216
            i550 MOD
            International Tempest ODR
            J 90 Mod
            Laser SB3
            MacGregor 26 WBMelges 20
            Melges 24
            Melges 32 ODR
            Mini Transat 6.5
            Mini Transat 6.5 Type Zero
            Mumm/Farr 30
            Olson 29
            Open 5.7 ODR
            Pyramid 660 MOD
            Santa Cruz 27
            Santa Cruz 27 Mod
            Soverel 33-2
            Synergy 1000
            Thompson 650
            Ultimate 20
            Ultimate 20 CM
            Ultimate 24 ODR
            Viper 640 ODR
            Wilderness 30
            Wilderness 30 SX FR IB
            Wylie Wabbit ODR W/Trap[/
            QUOTE]

            The ones in red don't really fit the profile of a sportboat, do they?

            http://www.tboat.com/Editorials/Edit...port-what.html

            Comment


            • #21
              [QUOTE=Big Brass Balls;16469]
              Originally posted by DeathSpear View Post
              So there are 116 boats today with PHRF certs in our SF fleet that meet the YRA definition of Sportboats above. Of those these are the unique boat types included (a couple of gems in there, see if you can spot them). I don't have SA/D information on the spreadsheet I got, but I'm sure I can get it if I ask. That could be a further refinement. It does sound like there is some inclination to only have assymetric boats within the division.


              Boat Type
              11 Metre ODR
              1D 35
              1D 35 MOD
              Antrim 27 CM ODR
              Azzura 310
              B 25 ODR
              Capri 22Cheetah 30
              Custom Black Soo 30Custom DP 26
              Custom GP 26
              Custom JS 9000
              Custom Mancebo 31
              Custom Ross 930
              Custom Tripp 33
              Custom Wilderness 30 SXElliott 6.5
              Farr 30Flying Tiger 10 Meter ODR
              Flying Tiger 7.5 Meter ODR
              Henderson 30
              Hobie 33 MOD
              Hobie 33 ODR
              Holder 20
              Hotfoot 20
              Hunter 216
              i550 MOD
              International Tempest ODR
              J 90 Mod
              Laser SB3
              MacGregor 26 WBMelges 20
              Melges 24
              Melges 32 ODR
              Mini Transat 6.5
              Mini Transat 6.5 Type Zero
              Mumm/Farr 30
              Olson 29
              Open 5.7 ODR
              Pyramid 660 MOD
              Santa Cruz 27
              Santa Cruz 27 Mod
              Soverel 33-2
              Synergy 1000
              Thompson 650
              Ultimate 20
              Ultimate 20 CM
              Ultimate 24 ODR
              Viper 640 ODR
              Wilderness 30
              Wilderness 30 SX FR IB
              Wylie Wabbit ODR W/Trap[/
              QUOTE]

              The ones in red don't really fit the profile of a sportboat, do they?

              http://www.tboat.com/Editorials/Edit...port-what.html
              There isn't much of 'real' definition on that site, other than:
              'sporty looking', 'between 6 and 8 meters', 'tend to plane downwind', 'assymetric spinnakers'

              Sporty looking is pretty subjective, but I guess we can use that definition to eliminate the Hunter, MacGregor and Capri (do note that surprisingly to me, both the Hunter and the Mac come with assymetric spinnakers with sprits... feck!)

              I think we can also argue that you can go to around 10m and still be considered a sporty? But yes, taking symmetrical boats out yields a similar list (I'm taking out the MacGregor and Hunter from the list just to reduce the noise in the thread


              Boat Type
              1D 35 MOD
              Antrim 27 CM ODR
              Azzura 310
              Cheetah 30
              Custom Black Soo 30
              Custom GP 26
              Custom JS 9000
              Elliott 6.5
              Farr 30
              Flying Tiger 10 Meter ODR
              Flying Tiger 7.5 Meter ODR
              Henderson 30
              Hobie 33 MOD
              Hotfoot 20
              i550 MOD
              J 90 Mod
              Laser SB3
              Melges 20
              Melges 24
              Melges 32 ODR
              Mini Transat 6.5
              Mini Transat 6.5 Type Zero
              Mumm/Farr 30
              Open 5.7 ODR
              Pyramid 660 MOD
              Synergy 1000
              Thompson 650
              Ultimate 20
              Ultimate 20 CM
              Ultimate 24 ODR
              Viper 640 ODR

              Any other discrimination factors?
              http://jetstreamracing.blogspot.com/
              http://www.facebook.com/JS9045

              Comment


              • #22
                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsboat

                Kind of lends some additional definitions. You could add the Platu or Laser SB3 to list, not that there are many about currently.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Big Brass Balls View Post
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportsboat

                  Kind of lends some additional definitions. You could add the Platu or Laser SB3 to list, not that there are many about currently.
                  The SB3 is listed. I thought the Platu had symmetric kite? I also kept the modified versions of the Hobbie, Blacksoo and 1d35 as they have all been 'turboed' with sprits and assys.
                  http://jetstreamracing.blogspot.com/
                  http://www.facebook.com/JS9045

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I missed the SB3, and somehow visioned the platu with an ace. Not wonder they never sold well in the US.
                    It looks like a good list to build on. Good work taking on the initiative!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by DeathSpear View Post
                      @ #13, what boat do you own?

                      It will be impossible to meet everyone's calendars needs. You do Mercurys, I do SSS plus long distance Ocean, others will have other conflicts...

                      I find Vallejo and Jazz Cup to be great fun for the SBs, normally long downwind runs. I do like the mix of single longish p2p race days and multiple W/L race days..
                      I'm the original owner of "Cascade", an Antrim 27 based out of Encinal.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Maybe time to regroup....

                        At todays HDA race, out of the 6 SBs entered only 4 showed up. And two of them, the Hendy and the Ultimate 24, raced in non-SB divisions???? Oh well, we enjoyed a match race with the 1D35.
                        http://jetstreamracing.blogspot.com/
                        http://www.facebook.com/JS9045

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