DDR14 Questions

[PeckerHead Racing]

The 2014 Delta Ditch Run date has been set. May 31 2014 will be the weekend of this event.

They are considering using the NCPHRF Downwind ratings this year. There are questions that we don’t have the answers for that we want to get peoples opinion on here.

1. What will the impact to participation be?
2. Why do other races like Jazz Cup and the downwind portion of the Vallejo race not use the downwind ratings?
3. How much will it affect the results?
4. Will larger boats come and less trailer boats?
5. What would improve the race and participation in general?

So what’s everyone out here’s opinions?

[The Flash]

no opinion, but I believe my Multi only has one rating - do we need BAMA to issue downwind ratings?

[Flat Stanley]

It's not always all downhill. Has anyone ever done a percentage of uphill vs down the course is depending on wind direction?

In the long run, the race is a favorite of trailer sailors and the 1 designs and cats could care less.

[BobJ]

SSC/RYC either proposed using them or did use them for the DDR when they first came out, and I read there was a lot of push back, especially from the smaller, lighter boats.

When I asked about getting them for multihulls I was told NorCalPHRF didn't want to get involved in that. No problem unless the R/C scores monos and multis together for overall trophies or something - and they shouldn't be doing that.

The best thing to do is re-score the last couple races using them - they are readily available HERE. We did that for the SH TransPac and quickly decided we didn't want to use them for that race. That's the proof of the pudding - if racers can see the results are not materially different, it will be an easier sell.

[3D]

If attempting to re-score for down-wind ratings purposes, remember that it was uphill race in both 2010 and 2011.

-3D

[BobJ]

... as was the SH TransPac for the first 3 days in both 2006 and 2008. You can't predict this when you're drafting the race documents months beforehand.

Especially on a Hawaii race, skippers want to know what sails to buy and regular vs. DW ratings affect those decisions. For example, the 3 sec credit for 125% LP jibs is n/a for DW ratings, while spinnaker size is a large factor.

So you need a better crystal ball than is available to mere mortals.

[Charlie Tuna]

Run it! See what happens! I think most won't give a shit.

If no one shows up, blame congress!

[DeathSpear]

The best thing to do is re-score the last couple races using them - they are readily available HERE. We did that for the SH TransPac and quickly decided we didn't want to use them for that race. That's the proof of the pudding - if racers can see the results are not materially different, it will be an easier sell.

But the point would be to make results materially different, otherwise why bother...

[BobJ]

DDR divisions are already divided into Light and Heavy so using DW ratings might only affect overall results. Somebody would need to run the numbers.

Here's the official explanation from the YRA website: http://www.yra.org/PHRF/docs/DownwindPHRF.pdf

I'm sure this has been debated ad nauseum by those making the decisions.

[PeckerHead Racing]

DDR divisions are already divided into Light and Heavy so using DW ratings might only affect overall results. Somebody would need to run the numbers.

Here's the official explanation from the YRA website: http://www.yra.org/PHRF/docs/DownwindPHRF.pdf

I'm sure this has been debated ad nauseum by those making the decisions.

That's the kind of info we're looking for BobJ.
So do you think that people would like to see the changes that would come in the overalls? Would there be more participation being slower/older boats would be in contention for an overall? Would it chase the ULDB's away?

I know several people that are boycotting this race being they are not using the downwind ratings.

[BobJ]

There are enough politics in those decisions that you need to talk with the people running the race. One of the key guys who developed the DW ratings said it best: "The boats who have been winning want to keep winning" (or words to that effect).

My personal opinion is that skippers need to be happy with their division trophies and make any overalls "barn doors" (elapsed time only). Overall corrected time trophies really stretch the capabilities of a single-number rating system (whether regular or DW). It can be better if you adjust things for the actual sailing conditions (a la ORR) but few race committees want to go there.

[DeathSpear]

I wouldn't make changes for the people boycotting the race. It is an awesome race regardless of how you place overall. If running down the Delta in tight quarters, in often nuking conditions is not your idea of fun, changing the rating system is not going to make a difference. If running down the Delta in tight quarters, in often nuking conditions is your idea of fun, changing the rating system is not going to make a difference. I guess what I'm saying is that after all of this you will likely end up with the same outcome regardless of what rating system you use.

[BobJ]

I have the wrong boat for it now but since I haven't done the Ditch in over a decade, I'm thinking about it - i.e. Dan's philosophy (plus mud and rum are better equalizers than ratings.)

[Rainier]

Of all the races I've ever done this one has the least to do with the results. It is simply an incredibly FUN race with a fantastic party at the end. People who boycott it, or get their panties in a bunch about the ratings, are missing the point and I would venture to guess the party is better off without them.

[Tonapah Low]

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