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I call BULLSHIT

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  • I call BULLSHIT

    So you finally read the long awaited NOR for a race you've been wanting to do for a while. You study the requirements to participate, meet most of them to start with but spend a few $$$ making sure you fully comply.

    Checklist done, you write the check and register for the race.

    A few days later you receive an email announcing that your registration has been rejected for not being a 'suitable strong yacht'.

    Ok, what the fuck does that mean, who determined that?. I reply with the construction method and other structural characteristics of the yacht and request specific concerns about what is not considered 'suitable strong' so that corrective action, if appropriate, can be taken to make it comply.

    Turns out there is nothing specific than can be identified, but because some marketing website had an FAQ that says the boat was primarily designed for buoy racing, it doesn't meet the 'spirit' of the race. If that is the standard, other boats like the Hobbie33 should also be disqualified, as their class site says:
    "The Hobie 33 is a highly competitive one-design / PHRF ULDB racer . Easily trailerable with a retractable keel and deck-stepped mast." Clearly it wasn't primarily designed for ocean racing otherwise they would market it as such, right?

    Hmm, a sailing race boat, wanting to participate on a 'race' disqualified for being primarily designed for racing. Primarily, doesn't mean exclusively. I can't think of many race boats that are not primarily designed for W-L buoy racing.

    I don't mind being told 'no' as long as there is fairness and equitable application of the rules for such decisions. But when arbitrary logic and subjective perceptions and 'spirits' are used, it pisses me off.

    Oh, and maybe we will change our minds if you get a signed letter from your Daddy... hmm no, if we get proof from the manufacturer "that the boat meets the specific requirements (and intended spirit) of the eligibility section as it pertains to this venue."

    Except that it already meets the specific requirements. Is there some unspecified construction standard that must be met? Is every entry required to provide such proof?

    To their defense they do have this clause on the NOR:
    "All questions concerning the interpretation of the rules, including those relating to a yacht's eligibility to compete, shall be decided by the Race Committee in accordance with the spirit as well as the letter of the rules."

    Its hard to argue and make a case with the 'spirit'. Perhaps going forward we should keep religion out of sailing. Enjoy your 'cruise' on Saturday.
    http://jetstreamracing.blogspot.com/
    http://www.facebook.com/JS9045

  • #2
    Who's Daddy?

    What race?

    Comment


    • #3
      There isn't much else happening this Saturday around here....
      http://jetstreamracing.blogspot.com/
      http://www.facebook.com/JS9045

      Comment


      • #4
        Doublehanded Farallones.

        I don't have a dog in this fight (this time) but I'm curious - what similar races (as to distance, possible conditions and history of casualties) have JS9000's done? It seems that would be good evidence to submit.

        I know Hobie 33's have done quite a few Hawaii races, and Sleeping Dragon was a long-time, very successful competitor in SSS, OYRA, Coastal Cup, etc. Hobie 33's have enclosed cabins (real ones) and a lot more freeboard and crew protection than Jetstream. I think that matters a lot.

        I agree you're right to be pissed if they led you to believe you would be allowed to race. Did you ask before you started on the prep?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by BobJ View Post
          Doublehanded Farallones.

          I don't have a dog in this fight (this time) but I'm curious - what similar races (as to distance, possible conditions and history of casualties) have JS9000's done? It seems that would be good evidence to submit.

          I know Hobie 33's have done quite a few Hawaii races, and Sleeping Dragon was a long-time, very successful competitor in SSS, OYRA, Coastal Cup, etc. Hobie 33's have enclosed cabins (real ones) and a lot more freeboard and crew protection than Jetstream. I think that matters a lot.

          I agree you're right to be pissed if they led you to believe you would be allowed to race. Did you ask before you started on the prep?
          The JS had done all local ocean races it could do before people who 'knew better' started putting rules in the books to disqualify it. It is unfair to ask for that history when you were part of an organization that also prevented the participation of the JS to build the history you now suggest I submit. All is documented on the blog, but I will summarize it for you:
          - 2010 SSS HMB (DNF for lack of wind at finish, but completed trip and delivery back)
          - 2011 SSS Farallones (DNF, skipper decided to turn around, you can find the documentation on the blog)
          - 2011 SSS HMB
          - 2012 DHL
          - 2012 DHF (DNS) but interestingly enough they didn't have a problem with my entry then
          *** After that the campaign strengthened to limit the JS ability to compete with the strict lifeline rule by the SSS, and OYRA also used some bullshit requirement that we didn't have a hatch forward of the mast. As such eliminating the opportunity to build the history you refer to. I called bullshit back then.

          Anyways that is just my boat. Other JS's around the world compete regularly in open water races, there just aren't that many boats. But in any case that wasn't the claim for disqualification.
          http://jetstreamracing.blogspot.com/
          http://www.facebook.com/JS9045

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          • #6
            Okay, got it.

            Is this a lifeline thing again?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Buzz Light Beer View Post
              Okay, got it.

              Is this a lifeline thing again?
              No, lifelines are not required. It is now a 'spirit' thing.
              http://jetstreamracing.blogspot.com/
              http://www.facebook.com/JS9045

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by DeathSpear View Post
                Other JS's around the world compete regularly in open water races, there just aren't that many boats.
                This is what I'm curious about. Specifics?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BobJ View Post
                  This is what I'm curious about. Specifics?
                  Bob, I don't keep track. Do you know what races other J-92 owners are doing?
                  We are pretty distributed bunch of owners and just recently started putting a forum together.

                  Last year, another JS did the 360nm Round Gotland Race, an island in the middle of the Baltic Sea. There is one in South Africa that sails in pretty rough conditions as well.
                  http://jetstreamracing.blogspot.com/
                  http://www.facebook.com/JS9045

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm with you Dan, I loathe both subjectivity and nanny-ism.

                    Didn't a couple of guys win a 300 nm ocean race in NZ in a Thompson 24'-er or something a couple of years ago?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have thought of naming my next puppy BULLSHIT

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                      • #12
                        Borrow "Flash"...
                        " I just found out my nest egg has salmonella"



                        h2oshots.com Photo Gallery

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                        • #13
                          If objectivity is desired, in five minutes I could write a rule that would keep out the JS9000, Viper and other boats of similar type (open dinghies with keels). It's probably time to do that.

                          This is because it's far easier to define the boat than to define the skipper. As we've discussed several times, I know your capabilities and you could probably pull off a Farallones race on Jetstream. I worry about the guy who just graduated from Basic Keelboat and wants to do an early Spring Farallones race on the JS next door to you. That's who we need to be thinking about. You are forcing the local OA's into this position.

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                          • #14
                            Maybe what's needed is a SFSBA (SF Sportsboat association) to run its own races. There seems to be a cultural/generational gap here that is not being overcome.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by BobJ View Post
                              If objectivity is desired, in five minutes I could write a rule that would keep out the JS9000, Viper and other boats of similar type (open dinghies with keels). It's probably time to do that.

                              This is because it's far easier to define the boat than to define the skipper. As we've discussed several times, I know your capabilities and you could probably pull off a Farallones race on Jetstream. I worry about the guy who just graduated from Basic Keelboat and wants to do an early Spring Farallones race on the JS next door to you. That's who we need to be thinking about. You are forcing the local OA's into this position.
                              Objectivity should always be desired. I though the specifics rules called out made the process objective. Clearly, that isn't the case.

                              A JS9000, a dinghy? really? I would argue the JS has more final stability than most boats racing to the Farrallones this Saturday. All sportboats have pretty open cockpits, so does the R/P 63 I race on. Anyways, these all comes down to personal biases. I'm not going to argue those.
                              http://jetstreamracing.blogspot.com/
                              http://www.facebook.com/JS9045

                              Comment

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